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Poster: TheGreat_and_Knowledgable Date: Dec 7, 2006 1:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Phish

ive noticed a lot of phish bashing around here. I do not see why either. Phish was a great band, and accomplished many many things. Every member of phish was a great musician. The only thing i can see held against them is the silliness in some lyrics, but thats just style of music. So who here actually likes phish as i do??

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Poster: elkdog Date: Dec 7, 2006 6:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Phish

I'm writing this fully aware of the fact that music is subjective. If it sounds like I'm judging people who don't like Phish, please know that it is not my intent. I don't want to start an argument, just to explain why I love that band.

I think you have to look at influences. The guys in Phish grew up listening to prog rock and arena rock, among many other things, and were heavily influenced by them. I never got the feeling that they didn't play with emotion, but it manifested itself differently. If you've watched Trey really tear into a solo, you understand that it was much more than a technical exercise for him. Phish did things like the Big Ball Jam, and Mike's parking lot golf cart rides to connect with the fans, and it worked. They were weird and outside the box on purpose, and to kids like me it felt like the perfect counterpoint to three things that were not factors in the '60s scene. 1) Predictable radio playlists, 2) Over the top hair band antics (Phish mocked them with their trampolines), and 3)the lack of technical sophistication in grunge rock.

Just like with the Dead, Phish fans have a point at which they "got it." "It" is something that was being done by guys 20 years younger and from the opposite end of the country from the Grateful Dead. I think it makes sense, and I also think it wasn't for everyone. Like the Dead, too, Phish shows over the years grew to include people who were there only for the drugs. Those of us who were there for the music are proud of it.

This post was modified by elkdog on 2006-12-08 02:04:02

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Poster: jw97760 Date: Dec 8, 2006 6:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Phish

Guys... I love phish. I still listen to them almost everyday. While my first love was, and probably still is, the Grateful Dead, I grew up and came of age with phish. (I am 29 years old.) Part of me feels like I should write an impassioned defense of phish, but I don't want to right now. And I don't think I should.

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Poster: cosmicharlie Date: Dec 8, 2006 6:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Phish

Being amoung the eldest here...I REALLY enjoyed a good Phish show, saw every one at the Shoreline from 95 on.
I'll never forget the show with all the green glowsticks during Wading in the Velvet Sea...but yeah, Trey is a bit of a pompous ass-lol

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Poster: JodyC Date: Dec 7, 2006 2:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Phish

It took me a while to get into them. I was bored of what i had (before I discovered the wondeful world of downloading)but forced myself because of how huge they got. While their live stuff may, mind you may, lack some of the emotionof a live dead show, consider the sources (60's era, acid tests, west coast, rock pioneers. Th dead were 20 years into their thing with legions of fans as Phish was getting off the ground. Not really fair to compare in my opinion. Who does have the emotion of the dead? I really enjoy the diversity of their song writing that is virtually non existant for so many bands.

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Poster: Fishead Date: Dec 8, 2006 6:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Phish

what's so great about them .....you got a dude who wears a dress and blows on a vacuum ..yeah now there's some talent..


trey is an excellent guitarist but the jams are so damm repetitive ya think the needle was stuck...

plus trey can't sing worth a lick -mono tone

i love to cut your head off so i can weigh it what ya say

5 pounds 10 pounds......

This post was modified by Fishead on 2006-12-08 14:56:07

This post was modified by Fishead on 2006-12-08 14:59:11

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Poster: cosmicharlie Date: Dec 8, 2006 7:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Phish

Been to a show? I used to think the GD were sooo repetitive & country, then i listened

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Poster: Fishead Date: Dec 8, 2006 8:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Phish

yeah -i have been to a show or 2or 3 or 4 or....how do you think i know he wears a dress and blows on vacuum...:)~

explain to me exactly when the dead did these kinds of things...

dead jams are a little more less annoying for some reason
guess it's the style ...trey's style don't cut it for me and
many other deadheads....

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Poster: cosmicharlie Date: Dec 8, 2006 9:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Phish

well, i thought maybe you only saw the Live in Vegas DVD.
The vacuum thing was good fun which I enjoyed...and the dress thing, does that mean I can't wear my silk underwear??? I think Micky & Billy would have looked cute in matching dresses, while Jerry, Bobby & Phil bounce about on trampolines...
(but i still won't kiss you, somedarkhollow-lol)

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Poster: Fishead Date: Dec 8, 2006 9:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Phish

yeah it was all good and fun then ..but when i try to listen to a show now it kinda ' annoying....was trying to listen to a show i was at back in 1993 the other day and the solo comes in during the tune lengthwise .
i sleep lengthwise when you are with me in my bed and i sleep diagnal when you are gone ..what the hell is that and then the vacuum comes in ....oh it's horrible ..kinda reminds of a donna howl!!!

i must of been pretty dosed up to enjoy that while it was going on !!!! :)

i do enjoy phish covers ....thay are excellent at covering songs....boogie on reggae woman is one of my fav's
peaches and regalia ..

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 7, 2006 2:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Phish

I really am an old fart that just stopped keeping up with new bands in the 90s, BUT my kids always told me good things about PHISH and what little I heard always impressed me. What really impressed me, though, was when the bass player (Gordon?) teamed up with Leo Kottke (big fan) and put out an album or two (?)...one song reminded me of Phil and Jerry on an acoustic set (I know, I know, quit comparing them). If I have this right, he is a damn fine bass player.

Just a few thoughts.

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Poster: SinsOfTheFather Date: Dec 7, 2006 2:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Phish

Yeah he is a good bassist and he did some shows this past year with Rythm Devils.

I think almost everyone that has posted about Phish on this forum has acknowledged their musical talent, the main complaint or criticism being the lack of emotion the listener feels when compared to the Dead. At least that is how I have interpreted what I have read here.

I convinced my dad to go see them with me, we had no idea what they really sounded like or anything, and we both had an awesome time. The guy next to my dad asked him, "You want to hit this man?" offering my dad a joint. His answer was, "Naw, I am here with my son." I laughed thinking, Dad don't let ME hold you back!

But I don't know, sometimes given the right time of day and the right Grateful Dead tune, I get this feeling that I am on the verge of tears because everything just sounds so perfect and beautiful. I never really get that feeling from listening to anything else, even bands that I like as much as the Dead.

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Poster: high flow Date: Dec 7, 2006 2:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Phish

Phish was good. Now they're gone. Phish's live recorddings don't give the same energy as the GD recordings.

I've always thought that the Reel to Reel recordings pick-up more than just the sound vibrations...

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Poster: jw97760 Date: Dec 8, 2006 7:02am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Phish

It was and is the moment. And being there now.

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Poster: wineland Date: Dec 8, 2006 9:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Phish

I'm a phish phan. Although I was more into them when they were touring. I'll catch the band members in the solo projects when they come to Portland. If you haven't heard it check out the Warfield run with Phil & Friends 4/15-16-17/99. Trey and Page sit in with Phil's band. The Charlie Miller SBD's are great. Just listened to the matrix versions the other day which were nice as well. They're on the Archive.

If you like Phish you might also likeRaq. Check them out on the Archive too.

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Poster: TheGreat_and_Knowledgable Date: Dec 8, 2006 4:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Phish

well i love phish as well. In their defense i will say, that they were not intended to be the new "grateful dead" they did their own thing and i think comparing is useless. And 2nd they definately were theyre own style, they were crazy in a sense

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Dec 7, 2006 2:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Phish

Hopefully this isn't in relation to something I said in Max's post, if so it was an understanding. Phish was a great band. Saw them maybe 5 times, all at Red Rocks and was blown away everytime. IMMENSELY talented, and a lot more disciplined than the Dead. GRanted there should be no need to compare them but in reality they are the ONLY band I can think of that could sustain a similar level of being interesting. I don't listen to them a lot but I like them and certainly respect the hell out of them. I still find Trey to be the type of person who seems he has something to prove. That's fine to be a type A it's just not MY style and it wasn't Mike Gordons style from what has been said by him and eluded to by others more than once.

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Poster: patkelley Date: Dec 7, 2006 1:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Phish

WHen I was in high school and college, I used to see Phish pretty regularly and I was blown away each time. I got into collecting live stuff of their's a little, but it was difficult to get good sounding tapes (this was at about the end of tapes). If they toured again, I'd go. But I dont think I have enough energy or free time to try to stay into two defunct bands at a time. I only listen to Phish music every once in a while these days. "I used to love them, but 'it's all over now.'" I guarantee you'll get a chilly reception for Phish from the old timers on here!

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Poster: tigerbolt Date: Dec 7, 2006 1:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Phish

music is subjective,what's the point of discussing why jack likes this band and jill likes the other.if it moves you roll with it.

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Poster: patkelley Date: Dec 7, 2006 2:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Phish

who are jack and jill, your cousins or something?

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Poster: Billy Pilgrim Date: Mar 20, 2008 8:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Phish

I feel it is my civic duty as a phish and dead head to throw my two cents in on this tired, forgotten post/argument. I'll start by saying the main similarity between the dead and phish has nothing to do with musical style, it is the comparable atmosphere of each band's shows and the dedication of their respective audiences. Beyond the similar scenes, and the tendency to jam, despite vast discrepancies in improvisational style, the two bands are not very similar.
I won't even delve into the song-value discussion except to say the Dead and their contributing lyricists were excellent song writers, the members of Phish were not. The dead's catalogue is filled with awe-inspiring songs that can exist alone, sans jamming or over-instrumentation, as art of appreciable beauty. Phish's does not. However, while phish's lyrics were rarely ever inspiring, the excitement of hearing your first "Wash uffizi, drive me to Firenze" or "me no are no nice guy" eventually instills a certain endearment in the most phans for the band's lyrical ineptitude.
While musical comparison is largely subjective and prone to provoking outrage from one group of heads or the other, i can say, in terms of how i perceive their music, the overall rhythmic proficiency of Phish, as an entire entity, trumps that of the Dead...(insert indignant diatribe from rhythm devils purist and/or phil-lover here)...I stand by that statement, however. Phish's jamming style is infinitely more rhythm based and thus obviously (sans rhythm guitarist ala bobby) Trey's lead playing is far more rhythmically intricate than Jerry's ever was. That being said, Dead jams were melodic journeys. Every note and run Jerry laid atop the colorful landscape created by Phil, bobby, and the keys could evoke a powerful and distinct emotion. Phish jamming could never achieve the wandering, weaving melodies that GD's jams consistently composed. I refuse to take sides between mike and phil, they are both masterful artists, and innovators in bass-playing. On the other hand, despite my suspicion that my judgment is biased by my affinity for jazz-influenced drumming as opposed to the more strictly rock style of mickey and billy, i can say, definitively, that fishman is a more interesting drummer than any of the dead's players ever were. im sorry, that is how i feel.
I've digressed from my original purpose here, (i did not originally intend to compare every player from each band...a futile exercise in subjectivity). The main point i want to convey is that Phish and GD are totally different musical entities and while it is possible to compare their styles incrementally (considering specific aspects of their playing styles), as i have demonstrated above, the overall feel and groove of each band is unidentifiable. The unique energy they each brought to live performances that kept devoted fans following them around the country, to the detriment of their economic stability and personal hygiene, is not something we can quantify or even effectively describe in words. Any attempt to do so for either band, much less objectively compare the two, often cheapens their unspeakable, invaluable beauty. In fact, i hope i have not done just that.
The trouble is, dead fans should not expect to like phish nor vice versa. Rather, each fanbase should respect the other for their analogous dedication and enthusiasm. The music these bands have made, whether or not its your bag of chips, transcends any trivial argument over which is better. I hope we can all agree on that.

Long-winded, indulgent, self-negating, and embarrassingly histrionic rant complete.

This post was modified by Billy Pilgrim on 2008-03-21 03:44:18

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Poster: Robony Date: Dec 8, 2006 8:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Phish

Phish =

Song >
15 min of POINTLESS noodling >
Part of a song >
20 more minutes of POINTLESS noodling >
More POINTLESS noodling

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Dec 7, 2006 8:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Phish

never got them. Tried but don't see it. I think I never could relate to the songs. They didn't have any meaning or connection with me. Gave em a shot though. I will say that the Trey guy is a pretty pompous ass. I've seen several interviews and he thinks he's God's gift. I can definately see whay people are turned off by him.